Transforming Negative Self-Talk Into Leadership Magic | Dr. Suzy Burke (Copy)
Executive coach and social psychologist Suzy Burke reveals how leaders can rewire their brains to transform debilitating self-doubt into curiosity-driven confidence through a simple three-step method backed by neuroscience.
The Universal Monster in Our Minds
You're not good enough. You're not smart enough for this role. You don't have the patience to lead this team.
Every leader has heard this voice—that persistent inner critic whispering doubts during important moments. After years of coaching leaders across industries, executive coach and social psychologist Suzy discovered an interesting pattern: most of us are doubting ourselves, most of the time.
"When your voice is full of fear, self-doubt, hesitation, your team is going to mirror that," Suzy explains. "That's a huge problem for businesses today."
The statistics are sobering: The National Science Foundation (NSF) reports that the average person has up to 6,200 thoughts per day (1), and 80% of them are negative. That means up to 4,800 negative thoughts cycling through our minds daily—many on an endless loop.
But this internal dialogue doesn't stay internal. It leaks out through tone, body language, and indecisiveness, creating ripples throughout entire organizations. The good news? There's a practical, science-based approach to transformation.
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MAGICademy Podcast (00:00)
Story of the two monks. They're traveling on a long and arduous journey to a distant monastery in search of enlightenment. And along they come to a fast flowing river. I see a standing there. She's distressed. She knows she can't get across without their help. As soon as she sees the monks, she approaches them and asks them to help her get across the river. Without hesitation, one of the monks picks her up and puts her on his back and carries her across the river and gently places her on the opposite side of the bank. She thanks the monk and
continues on her way and the monks continue on their way. But they walk for several hours in silence. And finally, the second monk says to the first monk in a tone of disbelief, brother, we took a vow of celibacy. We're not even allowed to touch a woman. Yet you carried the woman across the river. The monk who helped the woman replied, brother, I put her down on the other side of the bank. Hours ago, you brought her all the way with you to the monastery. When it's over, let it go. Once you've processed a negative experience, let it go.
MAGICademy Podcast (00:56)
Welcome to MAGICademy podcast. Today with us is Suzy. Yay.
MAGICademy Podcast (01:02)
She has an organizational psychology PhD from Columbia university. she's been serving as an executive in fortune 20 tech giant companies, leading their teams
to overcome their negative inner talk and bring the best out into the impact of the
And in this conversation, we will focus on the three C strategies that mentioned in her book, The Headmentals
And following those three step strategies, we hope this conversation provides you with a healing space where you can catch your negative self inner talk.
Confront it with deep passion and love and then change it with mini rituals with visualizations with practical strategies that will really help you and hopefully through this conversation one at a time we were able to shift the collective consciousness from criticized or negative perspective into more of a supportive and encouraging and compassionate one
MAGICademy Podcast (02:07)
beep, beep. In front of you lands a spaceship and out walks a friendly alien, if the alien walks. If you were to use one word, one sound or one movement to invite the alien to play, what would that be?
Suzy Burke (02:20)
I would say welcome with a big smile on my face.
MAGICademy Podcast (02:24)
Welcome!
Suzy Burke (02:25)
Well, with a big smile, because smiles matter. And smiles send strong messages to people. And that'd a way to say.
MAGICademy Podcast (02:29)
Yeah.
yes and I can sense
a sense of heart opening yes
Suzy Burke (02:36)
Yes, yes, for sure.
MAGICademy Podcast (02:37)
beautiful. So your upcoming book, the Headmental head mentals, why this book?
Suzy Burke (02:46)
You know, I've got two co-authors. We've been all coaching leaders for many years and we all had the same experience. Everyone's kind of doubting themselves all the time. And it's like people have this voice in their heads that says, you're not good enough.
you're not smart enough to be in this job. You don't have the patience to lead this team. And in fact, it's a very common phenomenon. And as a social psychologist, ⁓ for me, it was exciting to really dig into where all this is coming from and how we can take it away because it's very debilitating for leaders and for their teams because...
A leader might be having a conversation with him or herself, but the reality is that that conversation leaks to the team.
If your team sees your tone being negative, your body language being negative, you being indecisive and so on, you're gonna pick that up and have those same challenges in themselves. You when your voice is full of fear, self-doubt, hesitation, they're gonna mirror that. That's a huge problem for businesses today.
MAGICademy Podcast (03:48)
Beautiful. And also as leaders, we see there are leaders who have titles, there are leaders who play as team members. How do you see the definition of leaders?
Suzy Burke (04:00)
To me, a leader is someone who creates followership, whether it's by job title or position in an organization or charisma or relationships. But a leader is someone that people want to follow. One of my favorite definitions of leadership is telling someone to go to hell and they look forward to the trip. So it's someone that people want to engage with, be connected with, walk alongside with.
And those people need to have a mindful possibilities and opportunities and gratitude. Rather than that we can't get it done or it's too late or there's not enough money to think about what we can do, you know? Because there's always a way. There's always a way.
MAGICademy Podcast (04:40)
Yeah, my god. They're
always away. Yes, they're always away. That's beautiful. So let's dive into... Go ahead, sorry.
Suzy Burke (04:51)
For me, if the door is closed, I'll look for a window. If the window is locked, then I'll probably climb up on the roof and see if I can get down the chimney. If I can't get down the chimney, then we're gonna come down and like take an ax and carve my way in. Because if something's important, I think you need to find a way to get it done. If you're sure that it's the right thing to be doing. And that's called agency, right? That's self leadership. Taking responsibility for getting done what you need to get done.
MAGICademy Podcast (05:01)
you
Suzy Burke (05:15)
My mom always used to say, you've got to do what you've got to do and there's no point in talking about it.
MAGICademy Podcast (05:19)
And I think the first part is to determine if this is the right path to go and then once that's determined then we will do whatever it takes it's just action, action, massive action.
Suzy Burke (05:21)
But think that's true, so you just have to find a way, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
And bringing people along with you and making sure that they still want to come on the trip.
MAGICademy Podcast (05:40)
bring people along.
Yeah, because they will benefit because otherwise why this trip at all? There must be something collectively that really
Suzy Burke (05:47)
Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (05:57)
and elevate and transform me.
Suzy Burke (05:57)
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
That's where the vision comes in, right? Creating a vision that people can see.
MAGICademy Podcast (06:03)
Yeah.
Yes, it's beautiful. Shaping the future together feels like we're creating that reality together. It's beautiful.
Suzy Burke (06:15)
One of my favorite authors is Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. wrote The Little Prince. And he said something to the effect of, if you want a group of men to build a ship, don't take them into the woods and have them start cutting down trees. Take them to the shoreline and have them visualize the horizon.
show them what's possible, where that chip is going to take them. And then they'll figure out how to cut the trees.
MAGICademy Podcast (06:34)
think that's also holding space, holding space of pure potential, holding space of pure possibility.
Suzy Burke (06:40)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
MAGICademy Podcast (06:42)
With that vision and mission and big picture in mind, now let's kind of dive back into the Tendibles. so in your book, Headamental, you've mentioned the strategy of the 3C. So the first, can you share with us the core of your, the 3C strategy?
Suzy Burke (06:57)
Mm-hmm.
It's basically cognitive behavioral therapy. It's a process that was created by a psychologist named Alan Beck in the 1960s. And it's a very simple, it's simple, but not easy, right? The first step is when you hear something negative in your mind, you've got to catch yourself saying that unhelpful message to yourself. You've got to catch it. Once you catch it, you've got to interrogate it.
MAGICademy Podcast (07:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Suzy Burke (07:26)
Where's it coming from? Is it true? What evidence do you have to support it? Or is it some leftover nonsense from your childhood, something that happened to you in the playground or something that your parents did to you that really has nothing to do with your life today? And nine times out of 10, when you confront it, you'll discover that it's not based in reality. And then the real trick, the best part is to...
to change the narrative, to reframe it, to change it, right? So you might say, I can't do this yet, but I can learn.
I didn't knock this ball out of the park today, but with some more practice, next time I will. So it's a very, it's a very simple three-step process, but it takes a lot of time first to catch things, right? And to me that the trick in catching things is listening to your body. Because when I'm getting a negative message, I feel it in my stomach. My stomach gets tight. My shoulders get tense. So if I'm into something,
I might not realize it until I realize I've got a pit in my stomach. Right? I have to stop and say, wait a minute, what's going on? What am I hearing myself say? It's going to get me off track.
MAGICademy Podcast (08:35)
And from a neuroscientific perspective, why do we have all those negative feelings and negative thoughts at the first place? Like why, why are we made this way? Why do they exist at all?
Suzy Burke (08:50)
The interesting thing, Jiani is that they're hardwired. It's left over from when we lived in, know, thousands of years ago, when we had to worry about that sound in the night, the crack of the twig that some animal or unfriendly neighbor might be coming to hurt you. So the way our brains work, senses come in through the brain stem at the base of your skull, and they have to come through the limbic system, which is in the middle of your brain, and that controls your emotions, right?
That's what the amygdala is. And if you, anytime you get wired up, anytime that you're feeling a heightened stress response, your brain is taken over by this fight, flight or freeze experience. It's just, cause this thought gets to your emotions and they react. They're trying to keep you safe. Trying to help you run from the tiger that might be chasing you in a minute. And in order to get past the
limbic system, it's got to get into the frontal cortex, which is your logic and your rational part. But it has to pass through the emotions to get there, right? And often the emotions stop it along the way. And once you get into that fight, fright or freeze state, it's really hard to get out.
MAGICademy Podcast (09:48)
Stop everything.
so are you implying that those negative self-talk like say, you're not good enough. You're not patient enough and na na na na are associated with this amygdala hijack when we perceive things as a threat or it will happen even if there's no threat. It's just like default.
Suzy Burke (10:08)
It's...
Well,
any sense that comes in, comes in at
back and has to go through the limbic system. it comes from right, negative self-talk comes from a variety of sources, internalized criticism, past experience. And I had a sister who was so mean to me. I mean, so mean to me. And I think when I'm having negative thoughts, it's often my sister saying, you're just a brat, you're just a brat. Comparison, particularly today with social media.
where I'm sitting here talking to you, but my friends are riding around in beautiful cars and, know, this need to be perfect. There's so many sources of negative self-talk, but they come from your emotions, not from your logic, right?
MAGICademy Podcast (11:00)
from here, from the...
Suzy Burke (11:01)
From here,
from here, not from here.
MAGICademy Podcast (11:03)
So how can we...
I think it's so easy to catch it though. Whenever there are negative voices that's talking in our mind, we always know. It's like, oh, okay, Jiani you again, again,
Suzy Burke (11:07)
Yes.
MAGICademy Podcast (11:16)
So are there ways if through the science, the neuroscience, the psychology, the social science, whatever the science aspect that can we cannot negative voice be cured at all for good or are we destined to just be wrestling with this voice for all of our life?
Suzy Burke (11:41)
think
most of us at some point in our lives will have to wrestle with it. Not everyone every day for sure. I mean, I don't have a monster every day, but there are times when I do. And I think there are things when I feel the monster coming on. One of the things that works so well, it's so simple, it's just this deep belly breathing. Put your hand on your belly.
And that deep belly breathing sends an all safe signal to your body. It okay, Susie, everything's okay. You can relax now.
MAGICademy Podcast (12:06)
So this would be a very easy, just in time ⁓ strategy to do that. Are there, so if every day, every moment that we go through live and we hear those negative talk.
Suzy Burke (12:11)
Exactly.
Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (12:24)
coming back and then we keep doing this and would you say that after several years of consistently practicing this cycle can be broken and we can be free from negative talk or do we have to keep just doing this ⁓ forever?
Suzy Burke (12:41)
I can't speak for all humanity,
but certainly I would say for me, 90 % of the time, I don't have a monster in my mind, I don't. But there are certain situations that trigger me that make me think, ⁓ gosh, it's gonna happen again, you know? And those are the times where I have to catch myself and say, wait a minute, where's that coming from? Is it based in fact? Or is it just some...
Is it my sister haunting me yet again? I don't know anyone who's free of all negative thoughts forever. Maybe some people are seriously into Buddhism, which is so focused on non-attachment.
And I think people of a deep faith of any kind of a faith, perhaps. But I think most of us at some point have things that trigger us, right, Jiani? And the trick is when you do get triggered to nip it in the bud, to stop it and say, wait a minute, I don't have to go there. That isn't me.
MAGICademy Podcast (13:24)
Yes.
Suzy Burke (13:32)
I am good enough. I am enough. I am enough. And I don't have to be perfect. I can just be human.
MAGICademy Podcast (13:39)
is
perfect. The one is perfect. Yes. Yes.
Suzy Burke (13:42)
It's enough to be human, right? I can be human. And I'll make
mistakes and I will recover from them.
MAGICademy Podcast (13:49)
Yes. And when you're talking about the triggers, you mentioned about family members and past experiences. you, do you think the previous family experiences, the relationship between people that we love and we live together, our parents, our papa, our mama, our sister, our brother.
our uncle and auntie and our classmates when we were little. All that, our teachers when we grow up, like all that serve as a potential triggering ⁓ point.
Suzy Burke (14:22)
Absolutely, absolutely.
Both positive and negative, right? Both positive and negative. I have lot of wonderful memories of my family as well. And teachers and friends.
MAGICademy Podcast (14:26)
Both positive and negative. Yes, yes.
Yes, yes.
yes, same here. And sometimes I think our mind somehow has this gravity that...
tends to pull us away from the focal point of the beautiful, the bright, the wonderful, the loving and pull us back to seems like sort of like an attachment or gravity that towards the negatives. So it's still coming from here trying to protect our body basically.
Suzy Burke (14:57)
that's trying to keep you safe. It's trying to keep you safe, right?
protect your body and your mind as well, right? To keep you safe from, I mean, in the old days it was lions and tigers and warring tribes and so on. Today it's fear of embarrassment, fear of failure, fear of shame. It's a different kind of fear that it's trying to protect you from.
MAGICademy Podcast (15:21)
psychological fear.
Suzy Burke (15:23)
Yeah, I mean, I'm not worried about
someone attacking me physically, but I might be worried about screwing up this podcast today and being ashamed of it,
MAGICademy Podcast (15:30)
You don't have to worry about that because we would do a beautiful post edit. I know what you mean. Yeah, I think it's I think ultimately it's a fear of judgment and and
Suzy Burke (15:32)
Thank you. But you know what I mean. You know what I mean. You know what I mean.
MAGICademy Podcast (15:41)
externalization or exile from the communities where we feel like is the community that will help us or support us will will
we belong we fear we have this fear of being kind of left behind yes ostracized rejected left behind
Suzy Burke (16:06)
Ostracized. Yes. Rejected.
Yeah.
Yes. And no one wants to be left behind,
That's the saddest thing in the world.
MAGICademy Podcast (16:19)
Yeah, and currently there's this like rampant feeling of loneliness and even though we are supposed to be closer together with all those medias and technologies and platforms and communities and what really, what road does this like self-negative talk
play in the process of potentially alienize us in this supposedly to be hyper connected modern world.
Suzy Burke (16:51)
Well, I think there's certainly, I mean, there's certainly an epidemic of loneliness right now in America and probably in the world. Obviously COVID exacerbated it. But I think that, you the fear of making a mistake, the fear of not being perfect, the fear of being vulnerable makes us hold back and not have authentic relationships with other people. Because they might laugh at me or they might think I'm...
Set something inappropriate or have a bad thought, you I I have found, I learned a long time ago that if there's something you're ashamed of, if you bring it out into the light, it loses its power. It loses its power. So don't, I mean, it takes energy to hold something in and be ashamed of it.
MAGICademy Podcast (17:26)
How do we bring the shame into the light? By verbalizing it, by writing it, by talking about it, by...
Suzy Burke (17:29)
Absolutely.
From my perspective, it's not enough to talk to yourself about it. It's got to be sharing with people. Because as long as you're talking to yourself, you might worry that someone might find out, right? But if you say out loud, then it's out there. It's out in the world. know, when I was maybe 10 years, yep, when I was 10 or 11, my brother's college roommate came home with us, him for the weekend, and the fellow sexually molested me. And I didn't say a word about it for...
MAGICademy Podcast (17:44)
Yeah.
Back to the universe.
Suzy Burke (18:01)
Probably 40 years. And I was doing a workshop. I had to teach harassment free workplace training to like 50 different offices of a global law firm. And in one of the sessions, I talked about it. I have no idea why, but it just came out. Ever since it came out, I've been talking about it because I was somehow thought that it was my fault. I was like a little girl. I was a little girl. I didn't know how to get out of the room.
The interesting thing is, once I got out of the room, we lived in the woods and my dad had taught me about all the plants. I took him out in the woods with me and I picked up poison ivy and I rubbed it all over myself. Arms, legs, face.
And of course I got poison IV all over. And I realized when I started talking about it, I think I did that to make myself unattractive to him. So he would never do to me again what he had done to me in my brother's bedroom. But once I talked about it, it lost all its power. I didn't have to be ashamed of it anymore.
MAGICademy Podcast (18:57)
Thank you for sharing this.
Suzy Burke (18:58)
And I vividly remember my mom having me in the bathtub, washing me down with Epsom salts to dry out the poison ivy. I that's what I remember, you know? But I mean, my mother was an amazing woman. If I had told her she would have acted immediately, my father would have killed the guy. But I somehow thought that it was my fault that that happened, you know? How could it be so stupid as to go into Peter's bedroom with this guy and not think something bad was gonna happen? But I was so naive, so naive.
MAGICademy Podcast (19:24)
Yeah. And sometimes we really tend to blame ourselves first, whatever things that happens, we always tend to blame ourselves. And maybe because we, we see ourselves as a sovereign being and we wanted to take responsibility for us being a human being in this place. So if anything happens, it must be my fault.
Suzy Burke (19:33)
Yes, we do.
Right.
MAGICademy Podcast (19:49)
Some people may habitually blame others. So it's really depends as a way to save themselves. this sense of self-responsibility and the tendency to self-blame is coming from a good place to be responsible. And also I think I relate being a woman.
Suzy Burke (19:52)
The other thing, right? Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Yes.
MAGICademy Podcast (20:12)
sometimes if there's something happening to us, we feel like, nah, I look too pretty. I need to make myself look uglier so people don't find ourselves attractive and we don't become prey because sometimes being a woman does kind of imply that we are prey, so vulnerable, right? And so we tend to blend ourselves. And I remember
Suzy Burke (20:28)
Vulnerable, vulnerable, yeah?
MAGICademy Podcast (20:35)
I actually have a friend who went through similar experiences of that and she shared with me and it stayed with me even though I did not go through that and I can feel what she felt and I felt like as if I went through that as
and that left a mark in my mind so when I was going out, when I go through life, go through school
Suzy Burke (21:06)
Yes.
MAGICademy Podcast (21:12)
I usually tend to cover myself up so I would wear those like outrageous big suits or like outfit just to make myself look more like a boy or a guy and just like look like sloppy just a little bit so especially when I was walking outside at night I would put on a hoodie up pretend that I'm like a guy and was like
Suzy Burke (21:27)
Yup, yup.
Yeah. Yep.
MAGICademy Podcast (21:39)
And that always stayed with me as a way to like self-preserve and protect.
Suzy Burke (21:39)
hahahaha
Yep, protect yourself. Yeah, exactly,
exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (21:50)
All right.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think this like negative talk does come from a good place to like protect ourselves and, however, without control and without this mitigation, without this confrontation and change, it comes to really damage our psyche. And if we are working in teams, if we're leading teams, like you mentioned at the beginning, it really kind of like permeates through like your inner
conversation really kind of gets synced up by people that you served. Yeah. And so how we can like, we don't know what the science behind it, but we can kind of potentially hear the inner dialogue someone is having. so that, that comes to the
Suzy Burke (22:22)
It leaks out, it leaks out, yeah.
Yep. Yep.
MAGICademy Podcast (22:39)
confrontation, the second, the C of the whole process. So confrontation, you use the word like ⁓ interrogate. How do we interrogate or maybe investigate when those negative voices come in a very, in a...
Suzy Burke (22:48)
Interrogate.
MAGICademy Podcast (22:59)
Because when you speak the word interrogate that some image comes to my mind with like a detective trying to like force the victim to speak the truth and there are some violence being used and all that like harshness hurtfulness come and it feels very painful. How can we investigate that negative inner talk in a very
Suzy Burke (23:05)
Okay.
MAGICademy Podcast (23:22)
loving, compassionate, caring, just like cozy and way instead.
Suzy Burke (23:30)
You know, a colleague of mine, name is Joelle Crawford and she's brilliant. She's speaker. She's a writer. She's a coach. And she has a DIG folder. DIG stands for Damn I'm Good.
MAGICademy Podcast (23:40)
Damn, I'm good.
Suzy Burke (23:42)
And every time she gets a nice note or something good happens to her, she drops it in her dig folder. So when she's having some negative self-talk, she pulls out her dig folder and she reads about all the positive things that she's done. Like I was coaching a client yesterday who was feeling kind of down. said, wait a minute, let's talk about 10 things that you've succeeded at recently. She wrote them down. We talked about them and she wrote them down. I'm like, all right, when you're feeling like you're not up to the task,
MAGICademy Podcast (23:46)
You
Suzy Burke (24:08)
Look at that list, Danielle. Look at that list.
So asking yourself, wait a minute, is that true? Where's it coming from? Haven't I been successful before? Let's make that list of things, right?
Let's talk about all the things that I do well.
MAGICademy Podcast (24:19)
I love that.
So maybe what we can do is to always keep a digital and a physical folder and write maybe in a colorful sheet of paper and say, hey, today I've completed this one. I've done this one successfully. Someone had really good comments and feedback on this one. And I feel really invigorated when I am.
Suzy Burke (24:28)
Yup, yup.
Yup.
Exactly. Yep.
MAGICademy Podcast (24:46)
having a conversation with Suzy today for 25 minutes or I have been editing this episode and I really enjoyed it, time really flies so I went into my flow zone and when we think about it, really a lot, probably 10 is not even enough, we can get like 100 if we want
Suzy Burke (24:58)
Yep. Yep.
Yep.
Exactly. Exactly.
When
I coach a new client, I often do a 360 interview with their stakeholders. So I interview people and I record the sessions and then I create a report, but I'll pull out 10 or 20 really positive, powerful comments. And I write them in it like I make a wallet card for that person. I say, and I laminated and I sent it to them and I say, when you're feeling down, pull it out of your wallet and read these things. Cause this is what your stakeholder is saying about you.
MAGICademy Podcast (25:42)
See you.
Suzy Burke (25:44)
Yeah, because we all have moments where we feel like we're not enough, So say, wait a minute, I am enough. Let's look at what people said about me.
MAGICademy Podcast (25:50)
That's beautiful and and also as we kind of figure out the reason behind it there could be a line Well, can we overdo it can we
put too much attention to what I'm really good at and I then somehow when I really dig through the reasons why this thing was not done correctly or I did make a mistake but I end up saying, I think I'm pretty good like...
How can we tread the beautiful balance between one is to really prop ourselves up, the other side is really being authentic and being detached and being objective and say, yes, I mean, on a scale of one to 10, in this particular scale, I'm currently at two, they're like eight more to how do we balance that?
Suzy Burke (26:40)
Well, I
think when something doesn't go well, you've got to take it as a learning moment, right? And say to yourself, okay, I didn't do a good job on this training today, but I'm going to do this, this, this. So the next time I have to deliver the session, I'm going to be better. So it's not, if I bomb, I'm not going to say, but forget about that, I did all these other things well. What can I learn from that experience so that I won't make the mistake again? So I'll be better prepared, for instance.
MAGICademy Podcast (26:47)
Yes.
Yeah. And say that we will be able to grow what we set the goal to grow because look at all this like, damn, I really good at that.
Suzy Burke (27:15)
Exactly, exactly,
MAGICademy Podcast (27:19)
So harness
that into confident energies and actionable energies for us to really grow.
Suzy Burke (27:25)
Yep.
And
it's also important that once you've processed something to let it go. mean, one of my favorite pieces of the book is the story of the two monks. And they're traveling on a long and arduous journey to a distant monastery in search of enlightenment. And along they come to a fast flowing river. It's got a strong current and they see a standing there. She's distressed. She knows she can't get across without their help. As soon as she sees the monks,
She approaches them and asks them to help her get across the river. And she explains that she's afraid of being swept away by the current. Without hesitation, one of the monks picks her up and puts her on his back and carries her across the river and gently places her on the opposite side of the bank. She thanks the monk and she continues on her way and the monks continue on their way. But they walk for several hours in silence. And finally, the second monk,
says to the first monk in a tone of disbelief, brother, we took a vow of celibacy. We're not even allowed to touch a woman, yet you carried the woman across the river. The monk who helped the woman replied, brother, I put her down on the other side of the bank. Hours ago, you brought her all the way with you to the monastery. When it's over, let it go. Let it go. Let it go.
Once you've processed a negative experience, let it go.
MAGICademy Podcast (28:38)
Sometimes the negative energies can be so addictive. Just like when we watch movies or when we watch TV series and a lot of so-called like engaging shows have this underlying layer of suspense. Maybe some taps into unpredictability and some really taps into this conflict.
And I think the world is playing out this way is all the conflicts are being highlighted. I'm just like the two wolves One is the positive, one is the negative. Somehow I feel like they are.
Suzy Burke (29:13)
Yup, yup.
MAGICademy Podcast (29:18)
maybe there's more research to be done. Like there is this like innate addiction to this conflict and it feels like the conflict, especially the negative ones really, really keeps us hooked in a way. So in the example of the two monks, it's easier said than done. It's easier said, let's let it go. ⁓
Suzy Burke (29:34)
you
MAGICademy Podcast (29:40)
however somehow something in here just keeps us ruminating of all those negative rather than the positive experiences and how do we how do we truly let go break the cycle of constant conflicts
Suzy Burke (29:56)
Journaling can help, writing down what you're thinking about. Breathing can help. Meditating can help. Walking outside in nature can help, and being present, right? If you're take a walk in the woods, listen for the birds. Look at the beautiful green of the leaves. Look at the solidness of the rocks.
MAGICademy Podcast (30:11)
assert.
Suzy Burke (30:18)
and get all those other thoughts out of your head.
but you have to work. Then breathe again. mean, mindfulness is so powerful and being present is so powerful. So just sit and breathe. And you're gonna have thoughts that come in, but you know what? As soon as they come, say, leave, I'm being mindful. And just sit and breathe.
MAGICademy Podcast (30:20)
What if all the stars come back again?
So it's like a muscle letting go feels like it's a release. However, actually in order to let go, is a muscle that actively releases.
Suzy Burke (30:42)
It is a muscle.
It is a release.
It is.
Because when you do that deep
belly breathing,
body is saying to your mind, it's okay, you're safe. It's okay, you're safe.
It's okay. You're safe now.
And the other thing I would say is that those negative thoughts, they are hardwired, right? They come from a place of survival. So there's nothing wrong with them. But some strategies to keep them from controlling your life are useful. Because what you think impacts how you feel, which impacts how you act, right? It's a triangle.
MAGICademy Podcast (31:29)
Yeah.
Yeah. And you mentioned about one strategy of journaling. What if...
someone feel it's unsafe to journal because whenever you write it down, it's a physical thing. So people can look into it and, and especially closed ones. whenever we put something tangible in there, there's always a risk of being seen and being judged and losing the safe space. So for folks who don't feel safe to journal,
how should they do alternatively that similar to the process of germinating?
Suzy Burke (32:08)
And their phones aren't safe either,
MAGICademy Podcast (32:10)
Mmm, Iced.
Suzy Burke (32:11)
Probably not.
Well, you know what? What could work? Do you know what an etch of sketch is?
MAGICademy Podcast (32:15)
Etch your sketches, no?
Suzy Burke (32:17)
It was a toy when I was a kid. You would write in it, you'd have a pencil and was said that it had mica in it, so you'd write and you can shake it away. Or else they could journal and then burn it or throw it away.
I have a client that I'm working with and she went through a really hard time. She had all these notes from all these horrible conversations. I'm like, you've got to build this big fire and have ritual and burn those things. And as you're burning them, be smudging the house with sage, right? But get rid of them, get rid of them, get rid of them and ritualize it.
MAGICademy Podcast (32:48)
I love that I love that I think ritual plays a very interesting role in terms of especially breaking the cycles
Suzy Burke (32:53)
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I've also encouraged her to smudge her house and herself. Get sage and just smudge everything, including herself.
MAGICademy Podcast (33:05)
I have a physical sage but I think this one is more accessible it's like a sage flavored like incense and I sometimes I will burn this in the room
Suzy Burke (33:16)
yeah.
I have the big rods of for walking around.
MAGICademy Podcast (33:27)
Well, for our audiences who may not believe in the cleaning of the power and for sages, that's okay. It's just our little common shared interest. Right, or just the experience that you would like to experience. Wonderful, so.
Suzy Burke (33:38)
But you know what? Try it, because it couldn't hurt, and it might help.
Exactly. Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (33:51)
In our previous conversation, you also mentioned something about visualization. So we've talked about journaling, we've talked about rituals, we've talked about just...
have this muscles like just let go and touching our belly and breathe and there's also a methodology that you've mentioned in the previous conversation about like visualing above light visual like something about visualization can you remind me of like how visually can we can we let go
Suzy Burke (34:19)
Sure.
Sure.
You can visualize several things. You can visualize the experience with a positive outcome rather than tripping on your way to the stage and falling down on your face, walking smoothly and getting there. But you can also visualize this beam of light that's shining down on you, that's bringing you grace and power.
and love and peace. Let that beam of light lighten your heart and your soul.
It's filled with all good things. All good things.
MAGICademy Podcast (34:48)
I'm feeling the warmth.
Suzy Burke (34:50)
The other thing you can do, by the way, is to engage an accountability partner. So that you can talk to about these things. It will help you use the 3C method, right? When you're having a negative thought to catch it, to confront it and find out if it's actually true, if it's just your monster speaking up, then changing it. Have a friend that you can talk to about these things. The interesting thing is this notion of a monster came from someone I was coaching.
And we're talking one day and said, you know, Susie, I've got this monster in my mind. I'm like, my God, that's the metaphor, right? We all have a monster. And yet you think that there's a monster under your bed and when you look under the bed, it's just a dust bunny. It's nothing. It's nothing.
MAGICademy Podcast (35:26)
Yeah, sometimes we tend to exaggerate, especially negative experience. We tend to like overplay the negatives and downplay the positives as if sometimes
Suzy Burke (35:34)
Yep.
MAGICademy Podcast (35:44)
positives are like boring. Everything's going smoothly is like, yeah. But when things are going off of hand, there's a lot of drama, there's a lot of things. So it's blown out. It's like out of proportion and takes consumes all of our attention. And whatever our attention goes, our feelings follows and all this like monster starts to
Suzy Burke (35:45)
Yup.
Yup.
MAGICademy Podcast (36:04)
take us into captivity.
Suzy Burke (36:06)
The National Science
Foundation published a really interesting statistic. The average person has between 12,000 and 60,000 thoughts a day, and 80 % of them are negative. 80 % of them are negative. So if you've got 60,000 thoughts a day, that means 40,000 negative thoughts every day. And they tend to be repetitive. They tend to go on a loop, right?
So that inner spin brings out the worstness. And again, it's because we're hardwired for danger. We're hardwired for being on the lookout for bad things.
MAGICademy Podcast (36:36)
feels like the way to flip that tendency is to rewire ourselves somewhat to be happy in order to thrive rather than to be fearful in order to thrive.
Suzy Burke (36:36)
to survive.
And the interesting, Jiani is that our brains are plastic. There's plasticity in your brain. So we can actually change the neural pathways that our thoughts follow. So by using the 3C method, by catching it and converting it and changing it, over time you're going to change that pathway. It takes time. Of course it takes time. Typically 60 plus days, but with consistent practice, you can get there. It doesn't mean that you'll never have a negative thought again.
It means when you have it, you're catch it and confront it and change it.
MAGICademy Podcast (37:21)
from them and change it. ⁓
Suzy Burke (37:25)
and you're going to pull out your dig folder with all those things you're good at.
MAGICademy Podcast (37:30)
and visualize and do a ceremony to break it.
Suzy Burke (37:31)
and visualize that, and
have that beam of light bringing love and grace and gratitude and joy and warmth.
Because we deserve to be our best selves. We deserve to be our best selves every day.
MAGICademy Podcast (37:43)
and condition yes
yes and condition ourselves to be more consumed by the positives by the light by the happiness by what could come out what could be the best outcome out of this to get attracted by the positives to get consumed more by the positives
Suzy Burke (38:07)
Yep.
You know, one of the things that, that helps me is, ⁓ when I'm worried about something, my, my, someone years ago taught me this. said, okay, Susie, if that happens, what's the worst thing that could happen? And I thought to myself, Hmm, not really very bad, right? For instance, if I was worried about this podcast, if I totally blew it, the worst thing that could happen is you wouldn't show it. That's not so bad, right? We could do a redo, right? But.
MAGICademy Podcast (38:24)
Hahahaha
Right, and we can do another one. Yeah, yeah.
Suzy Burke (38:37)
And if you could articulate the worst thing that might happen, you should find out that it's not very bad. And that worry goes away. That worry just evaporates. And of course, then you ask yourself, what's the best thing that could happen?
That's much more encouraging, inspiring, exciting.
MAGICademy Podcast (38:54)
And I think if every single one of us is able to do this, then the collective narratives will shift from a blame, critical, negative to a more encouraging, provide space, compassionate and loving. So it's really and graceful. And, and even if people fail, then collectively we give them space. We give them space to fail. We collectively give them space.
Suzy Burke (39:12)
and Grace filled
Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (39:24)
to heal, we can actually give them space to grow and to evolve and that's going to be a very benign, compassionate and loving collective consciousness that we will be living with that's just... heaven on earth.
Suzy Burke (39:38)
Exactly. Exactly.
Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (39:42)
one person, one conversation, one thought, one change at a time. That's beautiful.
Suzy Burke (39:46)
Exactly. And if you practice
it over, I mean, it's simple, but it's not easy, right? But you just consistently practice catching it, confronting it, and asking if it's true, then changing it to a more positive narrative. Over time, that will be your habit.
MAGICademy Podcast (39:53)
in.
Just by imagining it, feels good, feels happy. Yes, yes. And so for our audience, you, as you're listening to this conversation and see if there's any negative ruminations happening right now in your mind and trying to follow Suzy's suggestion of a 3C. So first, catch it. Second, confront it with love and with compassion.
Suzy Burke (40:05)
Doesn't it make you feel light? Yeah.
MAGICademy Podcast (40:32)
and then change it with maybe a mini ritual, with a self-talk, with a visualization of light, whatever that works for you and see if that helps.
just a few minutes, I think that would do it. Let go. Let go. Beautiful.
Suzy Burke (40:52)
Exactly, exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (40:58)
So when Suzy was about 11 years old or somewhere around that time, what did Suzy enjoy creating or playing so much that time disappeared for her?
Suzy Burke (41:11)
loved to play out in the woods. We had a stream behind our house and I would go back there and look for tadpoles and put my feet in the water. It was cold and fresh and just enjoy the trees. I was a great tree climber so I'd climb the trees and see what I could see. I could stay out in the woods all day long and just enjoy being out in nature.
And my dad had taught me a lot of things that were in the woods. So it was just fun and interesting and engaging. And I would follow the stream and two neighbors house down there was like a waterfall. And I've walked down to the carabash's property and look at the waterfall. never went in it because it was very, very steep, but it was fun. It was beautiful to be in the woods, just freeing, you really freeing. And I love to be outside today.
MAGICademy Podcast (41:52)
take a walk into the woods. One of the most beautiful things we can ever do for ourselves, our happiness. That's beautiful.
And there are some research, I'm diving into it, saying that the forest bathing, just the pure action of exposing ourselves in the forest, surrounded by trees and nature and animals and bugs and water, helps us to restore our energies. And there's a lot of retreat things happening in the forest.
So I'll continue searching and researching on this. So what do you think is childlike vitality mean to you?
Suzy Burke (42:23)
Absolutely.
Children are so innocent. They're so positive. They're so excited because everything is new and different and they're filled with curiosity. And children ask why about a thousand times a day. Because they want to know things. They want to know their world. And it's just, to me, it's magical to see a child just running around and asking a lot of questions and wondering about everything they see, right? And I love it when parents or
MAGICademy Podcast (42:48)
You
Suzy Burke (43:04)
friends and colleagues, encourage them versus saying, asked too many questions. You have to encourage them because that's a beautiful thing, childlike wonder, know? Childlike imagination.
MAGICademy Podcast (43:14)
Yeah,
yeah. And what does that mean to grown-up adults? Like we have grown up and we're no longer kids anymore and how does that mean to us? like childlike wonder and childlike vitality and that sense of...
the beingness mean to us as an adult, a leader, doing serious things, produce, like creating product services, leading teams and leading ourselves, leading families and taking on responsibilities for the society, for the world, for the community, like all that. Like, what does that mean? How, what role does that play? Do we still have a space for that?
Suzy Burke (43:52)
think it's essential. I think it's essential. I ask a million questions. I'm curious about everything still to this day. And I think by being filled with wonder and being curious and thinking about possibilities, I think we see things that we wouldn't ordinarily see if we just cut to the chase and have a solution. To say in a group, I wonder what would happen if...
We tried this or tried that, you know? I love that I wonder what happened if. It's a great question with the team.
MAGICademy Podcast (44:17)
would that potentially shift the current way of working or how would that if we speak in what the world is expecting to hear how would that contribute to the outcomes that we are trying to create?
Suzy Burke (44:32)
from my perspective in a very positive way. Because if we can expand our thinking, we'll imagine things that if we're just head down and wrote, we will never encounter. And so the best inventions of the world have been through brainstorming, right? know, letting one thought lead to another thought lead to another thought, to another thought. And all of sudden you've got a whole new idea that you would ever have thought about. If you didn't make the space and the time to build on each other's ideas, to wonder about what would happen if.
MAGICademy Podcast (45:01)
That's beautiful. And I think that comes back to the 3C method. I think it would be good to ask, What if? What if it's not the worst thing that's happened? What if it's best thing that happens? So it helps us to turn the switch more easily. Nice.
Suzy Burke (45:06)
Yes it does.
Right.
Yep. Yep.
MAGICademy Podcast (45:19)
So what do you think is your magic? However you tend to understand or interpret the idea of magic. So what do you think is your...
is your magic that gives you anchoring, you strength, gives you resilience.
Suzy Burke (45:35)
think my magic is having in a mindset of abundance rather than scarcity. I am so
for all the gifts I've been given. And I feel like no matter what happens, I'll find a way through. So I think this gift of gratitude, I think is my magic. Being always grateful for everything that I have and being confident that...
everything's gonna work out because it always does. It may not work out the way I imagine it would, but it's always for the best.
MAGICademy Podcast (46:08)
always for the best.
Suzy Burke (46:10)
because if I take a left turn when I didn't expect it, I might end up in a wonderful place. And if I'm lost, I'll find my way back. You know? I've always... Yes, exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
MAGICademy Podcast (46:19)
We lost for a reason. For purpose.
That's beautiful. What is one simple action that you practice daily to keep your magic alive?
Suzy Burke (46:30)
I think about all the things I'm grateful for. I think about all the people I love. A friend of mine.
who I love dearly. Before she gets out of bed in the morning, she says 10 things that she's grateful for.
And think that's an amazing practice. But for me being great, I say to whoever I'm with all day long, I feel so blessed. feel so grateful. mean, today it's not a beautiful day, but yesterday was a beautiful day. And I've got an amazing dog, a great husband, great friends, great work.
By the way, Julian is one of my favorite people on the planet. Julian who connected us, I love him.
MAGICademy Podcast (47:03)
And thank you, Julian, for connecting us.
That's beautiful, Suzy. It's such a...
releasing conversation with you at the same time validating at the same time loving and i hope our audience are able to to feel that to to to shower this energy throughout their day
Suzy Burke (47:24)
do too. You know, as I was
thinking about this and preparing for it, I really wasn't worried because you're such a, you're such a gracious, grace-filled, loving, wonderful person, Jiani. You are. I knew it would be calm and easy to talk with you. Not scary at
MAGICademy Podcast (47:44)
goal of this conversation is to serve as a spa for our guests and our audience because we need more spa moments. ⁓
Suzy Burke (47:46)
you
Exactly. Exactly.
Yes we do. Yes we do.
Yes we do.
MAGICademy Podcast (48:00)
So good to have you, Suzy. Thank you.
Suzy Burke (48:02)
Thank you so much, Jiani. Thank you so
very much.
MAGICademy Podcast (48:05)
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today. And for our audiences, if you want to connect with Suzy.
to explore the topics of how we can consistently let go with all the negative thoughts and welcome and being showered with this positive yet objective thoughts. It would be good to connect with her, especially if you wanted to lead a team, build a business. A lot of audiences are building businesses and building futures through our products and services. So that would be a good conversation to have, or at least something to
explore and open our mind to. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Suzy.
Suzy Burke (48:45)
Thank you. And I would love to talk with them. Thank you so much.
Understanding the Neuroscience of Negativity
Before we can address negative self-talk, we need to understand why our brains seem programmed for pessimism.
Our negativity bias is hardwired—a survival mechanism from when our ancestors needed to worry about the slightest sound signalling an approaching predator. "It's left over from when we lived thousands of years ago, when we had to worry about that sound in the night," Suzy explains.
Here's what happens: Sensory information enters through your brain stem and must pass through the limbic system—your emotional center—before reaching the frontal cortex, where rational thought lives. "We’re physically wired to react emotionally before we think," Suzy notes.
This means in moments of stress, your amygdala hijacks logic, flooding your system with stress hormones to help you run from danger—even when the "danger" is just an upcoming presentation or difficult conversation.
While we're no longer worried about tigers, our ancient threat-detection system has adapted to modern fears: embarrassment, failure, shame, rejection. The system that once saved our lives now often holds us back from the high risks and vulnerabilities that lead to growth and authentic connection.
Children's brains work differently. They ask "why?" about a thousand times a day, approaching the world with curiosity rather than fear. Somewhere between childhood and leadership positions, many of us lose this quality. Reclaiming that childlike wonder becomes essential to breaking free from negative thought patterns.
The 3C Method: Catch, Confront, Change
Drawing on cognitive behavioural therapy, the 3C Method offers a simple yet powerful framework. As she says, "It's simple, but it’s not easy."
Catch: Recognising Negative Thoughts Through Body Awareness
The first step is catching yourself in the act. Since many negative thoughts run on autopilot, the key insight is to listen to your body.
"When I'm getting a negative message, I feel it in my stomach. My stomach gets tight. My shoulders get tense," she shares. These physical sensations—tension in your jaw, a knot in your stomach, shallow breathing—serve as early warning signals, often appearing before you consciously register the negative thought.
Approaching this with childlike curiosity rather than judgment transforms the practice. Instead of berating yourself for negative thinking, ask with genuine wonder: "Why am I worried about? Where did this come from?" This mirrors how Suzy spent hours as a child exploring the woods behind her house—present, curious, free.
Confront: Interviewing Thoughts with "I Wonder..."
Once you've caught a negative thought, gently interview it: Where's it coming from? Is it true? What evidence supports it? Nine times out of ten, you'll discover these thoughts aren't based in current reality—they're echoes from the past.
Suzy's colleague Joelle Crawford developed the "DIG folder" technique—"Damn I'm Good." Every time you receive positive feedback or achieve something noteworthy, add it to this folder. When negative self-talk strikes, pull it out and read the evidence of your competence.
Here's where wonder becomes transformative. Replace fear-based questions with possibility questions: Instead of asking "What could go wrong?" ask "I wonder what would happen if...?" and "What's the best thing that could happen?"
"The best inventions of the world have been through brainstorming," Suzy notes. "Letting one thought lead to another thought. And all of a sudden you've got a whole new idea that you would never have thought about if you didn't make the space and the time to wonder about what would happen if."
This abundance mindset—believing "there's always a way"—replaces scarcity thinking. As Suzy says, "If the door is closed, I'll look for a window. If the window is locked, then I'll probably climb up on the roof and see if I can get down the chimney."
Change: Reframing Narratives and Creating New Neural Pathways
The final step is actively rewriting the narrative. Instead of "I can't do this," try "I can't do this yet, but I can learn." When something doesn't go well, take it as a learning moment rather than evidence of inadequacy.
Here's the encouraging news: our brains are malleable. "We can actually change the neural pathways that our thoughts follow," Suzy explains. "By using the 3C method, over time you're going to change that pathway."
Research suggests it takes 60-plus days of consistent practice, but you can literally rewire your brain to default to more positive, realistic thought patterns. Childlike imagination and gratitude become the fuel for this transformation, shifting from a state of survival to one of thriving.
Practical tools support this process: deep belly breathing sends an "all safe" signal to your body; visualization techniques like imagining a beam of light bringing grace and peace; nature immersion that reconnects you with wonder; and rituals like journaling and burning what no longer serves you.
Suzy shares the parable of two monks who had taken a vow to never engage with women in any way. On a journey to a distant monastery, they encounter a woman struggling to cross a river. One of the monks picks her up, carries her across the river, and gently sets her down. Hours later, one monk criticizes the other for breaking their vow by touching her. The first monk replies, "I put her down at the riverbank hours ago. You brought her all the way to the monastery with you." The lesson: once you've processed something negative, let it go.
From Individual to Collective Transformation
Leaders' inner dialogues don't stay private—they sync with their teams through tone, body language, and decision-making patterns. When you model curiosity, possibility thinking, and self-compassion, you create psychological safety for others to do the same.
"If you want a group of men to build a ship," Suzy quotes from Antoine St. Exupery, "don't take them into the woods and have them start cutting down trees. Take them to the shoreline and have them visualize the horizon."
By transforming your relationship with your inner voice, you shift organizational culture from blame and criticism toward encouragement and compassion. You create space for people to fail, heal, connect, and grow.
"One person, one conversation, one thought, one change at a time," Suzy says. This is how we create collective transformation—even "heaven on earth."
Reference:
(1) Tseng, J., Poppenk, J. Brain meta-state transitions demarcate thoughts across task contexts exposing the mental noise of trait neuroticism. Nat Commun 11, 3480 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-020-17255-9
⭐ Dr. Suzy Burke & MAGIC
Suzy Burke, PhD, is a strategist and co-founder of Accountability Inc., where she helps executives and organizations navigate disruption, spark bold thinking, and achieve breakthrough results. With a doctorate in organizational psychology from Columbia University and 15 years as a Fortune 20 executive, she blends behavioural science with real-world leadership experience to ignite lasting transformation. As the lead author of Headamentals and a member of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches, Suzy is known for translating inner clarity into external impact. When asked about her personal magic, she points to an abundance mindset rooted in deep gratitude—an anchor that keeps her resilient, grounded, and open to possibility.
Headmentals Book: https://a.co/d/8aNVfPd
Creative Process
Discuss Potential Outlines: human + ai
Create Initial Drafts & Iterate: human + ai
Ensure Guest Alignment: Dr. Suzy Burke
Ensure Final Alignment: Dr. Jiani Wu, Kim
Initial Publication: Nov 28, 2025
Disclaimer:
AI technologies are harnessed to create initial content derived from genuine conversations. Human re-creation & review are used to ensure accuracy, relevance & quality.
